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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 5:43 pm 
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Krew (Admin)
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Dualscreenman wrote:
You run it off a flashcart. It doesn't work for emulation.
It's basically a homemade AR DS of sorts.

Oh, I see. That's really cool then... can't he get in trouble for the whole code type copying thing? Or is that considered and idea instead by copyright law?

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 5:57 pm 
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Pelican uses the same codetype for their 16-bit write and you don't see them getting sued.
I think it's perfectly legal. You can't copyright numbers.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 9:01 pm 
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Does this have anything else that DipStar doesn't, besides not requiring (m) codes?
Dipstar has supported AR codes for quite some time now. (As mentioned in the readme, add FFFFFFFF 00000001 before first line of a code in Dipstar for it to be handled with AR code types instead.)


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It's compatible with all DLDI cards and has no wifi limitations.

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<EggWerx> MetalOverlord: Dsman and lemmayoshi will be used for taco meat, ask mo he knows me.
jleemero wrote:
Being required to learn Java for a Comp Sci MAJOR is like being required to shit on a lawnmower to be an astronaut.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 11:58 pm 
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Title: All in a day's work.
The code engine was written with a "clean-room" implementation. Meaning One person (kenobi) did the reverse engineering and documentation of the engine, and another person (chishm) wrote a new engine based on the documentation. Making it a perfectly legal reverse engineering collaboration. See the DMCA for more information.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 5:48 am 
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Dualscreenman wrote:
You can't copyright numbers.

lol
tell that to anyone using a softcam for satellite "testing" like any backup scene there are legit users illegit users
but it has been known for a long time that even through the cam emus are 100% original code(atleast some) they are not legal and the numbers found to use with them are also
honestly lets not beat around the bush on these are not completely legal
but then again i live in canada and filesharing is legal here like it if in many countries
(ever since Judge Konrad von Finckenstein in part, he said the industry had not presented evidence linking the alleged file swapping to the ISP subscribers that was strong enough to warrant breaking through critical privacy protections.)
yes the ruling was for music but its a landmark case because those same privacy protections apply to movies,ds games or anything really
there were other factors but either way this has been held up by the supreme court so im covered
at least as long as the evil bill 60 doesnt pass amending our copyright laws and taking away freedom
anyway im getting off topic
if i wanted to be a pirate i legally can(although would that make me a pirate if its legal?... (i guess no i patch and pegleg for me then)

i say its not against the laws for lots of people
the internet is exclusively the US and shouldnt be treated as so
by not opening the code your hurting the homebrew and opensource movements
so why not


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 6:02 am 
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This work is fully compliant with the DMCA.
This isn't in one of the grey areas such as "backups".

This is home-made code.
This ahas noting to do with piracy. Whatsoever.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 6:09 am 
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i can also win on a moral ground
dont companies like datel deserve money?
by making this your hurting them just like a pirate hurts a game company but most of the popular games come from giant companies like ubisoft ea thq etc. so they dont feal it as much as a much smaller company like datel
just curious where did kenobi get the documentation
if he stole it its still like stealing the code yourself, same with if he got it from tools to develop codes thee terms of service are violated when its not used for the real device
im not agaist your project but morally your no better than the pirates

im done playing devils advocate for now
i just know personally for the convenience factor mostly i dont want to pack several games around traveling but i wouldnt mind playing with this
flash cards would be better since honestly its not hurting anyone
but you like me are entitled to your opinion so all i can do like other people is ask:
support flash cards (eg roms) please


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 6:29 am 
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Title: All in a day's work.
Please write in a sensible manner. I am having difficulty following the points you are trying to make due to lack of punctuation and grammar control. Remember that you are writing prose here, not poetry; line breaks in the middle of sentences only causes confusion.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 6:34 am 
Anarchy's just an idiot. Ignore him and move along.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 6:35 am 
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anarchy99 wrote:
i can also win on a moral ground
Don't companies like Datel deserve money?

No. If somebody can make a better product for less money, (This one is free) then they don't. This is called capitalism.

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By making this your hurting them just like a pirate hurts a game company but most of the popular games come from giant companies like ubisoft ea thq etc. so they dont feal it as much as a much smaller company like datel

It's called competiton. A free antivirus may hurt Norton antivirus sales, but is it legal? Yes. Moral? Yes as well. You are just using competition.

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just curious where did kenobi get the documentation
if he stole it its still like stealing the code yourself, same with if he got it from tools to develop codes thee terms of service are violated when its not used for the real device

He reverse-engenieered and documented the codetypes. No stealing has occured here.

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im not agaist your project but morally your no better than the pirates
Competition is life. Deal with it.

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Being required to learn Java for a Comp Sci MAJOR is like being required to shit on a lawnmower to be an astronaut.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 6:54 am 
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anarchy99 wrote:
i can also win on a moral ground
dont companies like datel deserve money?
by making this your hurting them just like a pirate hurts a game company but most of the popular games come from giant companies like ubisoft ea thq etc. so they dont feal it as much as a much smaller company like datel
just curious where did kenobi get the documentation
if he stole it its still like stealing the code yourself, same with if he got it from tools to develop codes thee terms of service are violated when its not used for the real device
im not agaist your project but morally your no better than the pirates

im done playing devils advocate for now
i just know personally for the convenience factor mostly i dont want to pack several games around traveling but i wouldnt mind playing with this
flash cards would be better since honestly its not hurting anyone
but you like me are entitled to your opinion so all i can do like other people is ask:
support flash cards (eg roms) please


gb2/AOL fag

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 12:06 pm 
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anarchy99 wrote:
i can also win on a moral ground
dont companies like datel deserve money?

HAHAHA
anarchy99 wrote:
by making this your hurting them just like a pirate hurts a game company

Flashcard price > AR price = insignificant
anarchy99 wrote:
...so all i can do like other people is ask:
support flash cards (eg roms) please

Why ask this after your long winded argument on how this project is morally wrong?


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 3:56 pm 
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anarchy99 wrote:
im not agaist your project but morally your no better than the pirates


Piracy FTW!

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 4:22 pm 
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do what you want cause a pirate ye be

YOU-ARE-A-PIRATE

YARHARFLIBBERDYGEE

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 5:49 pm 
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redplanet1 wrote:
do what you want cause a pirate ye be

YOU-ARE-A-PIRATE

YARHARFLIBBERDYGEE

lol - lazytown.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 10:40 pm 
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anarchy99:
This tool is also bringing down the profits of Pelican (creators of the Codebreaker) and Imaha, even though DipStar generates $0 profit. It's a competing product, that's what competition does. The difference is that I'm not stealing anything from them. If you make the claim that I am stealing codes, I can counter argue with the large number of codes produced, for free, by members of this forum.

Trying to bring me down to your level won't work, so please stop now.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 1:02 am 
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im not saying it is or isnt bringing down profits of all those companies
infact you could argue it helps more then it hurts if you waned to
it needs a flash card to run and they cost more and are offered by many more companies this equal higher profits for them and more companies would be the ones profiting
also it brings people more in touch with homebrew and opens many possibilities

there ive played both sides of the argument

maybe i missed it through all the flaming but no one answered where kenobi got the documentation
if it was his thats all well and good props to him, if it came from datel originally even legally through there trainer makers and such it still violates terms of service which is not legal

either way its a good program i will use it, but like many i dont like the inconvenience of using my real cards.
another interesting thought about all this is who legally owns the codes put out by datel (non user submitted) is it datel for discovering them?, the the game company because its there game
who knows but its and interesting thought
regardless, ive made my thought known in most posts that rom support is wanted
i can see why the source wasnt released because of how it could be modded to dump roms, but that doesnt mean it cant get rom support and be closed source althoguh its been well established in ever ds forum this wont happen any time soon
i do have to say discussion is fun atleast im not posting th generic requests for ROM SUPPORT PLZZZ!!! and i find it amusing that some call me an idiot with no reasoning(yet they themselves cant use there superior intellect to decipher my bastardized englsih? and if they didnt care they wouldnt bother posting i mean seriosly), some ignore and others b*tch about spelling and such
yes i type fast and dont care about spelling, grammar, punctuation and stuff like that on a forum this isnt an essay or a paper
@ l3A57 i d0n7 7ALK iN L337 0r 50m37HIN' liK3 7H@
cant read it dont bother its that simple you probably feel that at the end anyway
either way il enjoy seeing how you guys nit pick this one


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 3:39 am 
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Title: All in a day's work.
Kenobi didn't just "get" the documentation. He wrote it himself. The knowledge gained to write the documentation came from his reverse engineering approach on the Action Replay software. As I mentioned before, this is the first step in a "Clean-room implementation" of software. So that settles that, and in your own words, "props to him."

Finally, it's not that we don't want to use our "superior intellect" to decipher your bastardized English. It's more that we want to put as much effort into reading it as you put into writing it; that is you put in little effort to make it readable, and we will put in little effort to even skim over whatever points you attempt to make. Even though this may be "just a forum" that doesn't mean you should let communication break down. Any time communication breaks down, there is a very good chance of unnecessary misunderstanding. And I will not accept an excuse that you bastardize the language "within limits." Because our limits (standards) are set higher than most.

I've said it before, we treat people the way they treat the English language.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 5:04 am 
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For the record I did offer a counterpoint to all your points made in a respectful manner. To say I didn't answer where Kenobi got the documentation is complete bull.
Quote:
anarchy wrote:
just curious where did kenobi get the documentation
if he stole it its still like stealing the code yourself, same with if he got it from tools to develop codes thee terms of service are violated when its not used for the real device

He reverse-engenieered and documented the codetypes. No stealing has occured here.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 5:16 am 
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Version 0.3 is up. I implemented a few custom code types that may come in handy. Also, if you have Animal Crossing, try the code CF000001 023f0000. Make sure it is the first code in the list. It should then act like a master code, hopefully allowing AC to work.


Last edited by chishm on Wed Mar 14, 2007 7:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Title: All in a day's work.
I think it's a great project. Keep up the good work, chishm.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 6:19 am 
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anarchy99: We don't want you to feel like you have been 'ganged up on' you just sounded a little nonsupporting of chishm's efforts on a great project. If you haven't noticed, we just make sure that we stick up for our members. We also did not want you confusing the legalities of this project either. Using the AR codetypes is not illegal as they are an idea and idea's can not be copyrighted just to clear that up. With that out of the way, we are glad to have you here and welcome your input. Do not be afraid to ask about the legalities of something in the future if the problem arises.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 7:29 am 
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Your new C1(/C2) code type look very nice !

But for your C1 code type, not sure if you though about it, wouldn't something like this look more 'optimized' (maybe only to my eyes...) :
C100000x yyyyyyyy
x : zzzz (bit view)
with z=1 meaning 'load the data to the argument' (lsb=r0, msb=r3).
1000 would mean 'load the data in r3'
exemple :
To call a function at 0x02049A48, with the arguments r0 = 0x00000010, r3 = 0x12345678, you would use:
C1000009 02049A48
00000010 12345678

(instead of :
C1000004 02049A48
00000010 00000000
00000000 12345678)

But I guess that shouldn't matter a lot (that might help to gain a line of code in very, very few cases)... And it might even make the code type too technical.



Also, if I may, I would like to share some thoughts I had about 'improving' the AR codes types while keeping the new code type still compatible with the old ones (it might actually help you integrate my 'ar hacks' in your code handler - that is, if you still have free space to use). You might use it freely, or ignore it !

1) I never liked the 'if...' codes not using the offset. So I though these code type could be changed like that :

If the lsb of the address of an 'if...' code is set, the code handler would load the data at [(address & 0xfffffe) + offset], else it would just use [address].
62020000 00000002 : will check if [0x02020000] != 0x00000002
62020001 00000002 : will check if [0x02020000 + offset] != 0x00000002


2) And for the and/orr/xor, something like that could be done :
D400000X YYYYYYYY
where X would select the operation to execute :
0 : add
1 : and
2 : orr
3 : xor
... (mul, lsl/lsr/ror)

And sorry, but I didn't have time to test Nitro Hax yet (but that should come one day). That's all !

Oh, and as it seems I never stated it myself : I've written the AR docs myself, from scratches. And I got the code types infos by reverse-engineering the AR code handler (like I did for the NGC, PS2, GBA, GB/C...).


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 7:41 am 
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Title: All in a day's work.
The thing about calling functions in assembly is that you will never find an instance where a function uses arguments 0 and 3 (r0 and r3) but not arguments 1 and 2 (r1 and r2). In other words, if argument 3 is used, then arguments 0 - 2 MUST also be used. Any additional arguments must be pushed to the stack. And of course argument 4 (first word pushed on the stack) cannot be used without first using arguments 0 - 3, etc.

You don't want to just "ignore" arguments. In some cases (very, very rare) an argument may go entirely unused. But for every other case, the function is going to receive undefined data (could be zero, could be random, could be anything!) for those ignored arguments. All I can say is "bad, bad, bad..."

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@Para :Well I saw some functions just 'destroying' some registers, like 'mov r0,1' , 'ldr r1=0x02000000', 'mov r2,r1' (these are just exemples, not taken from an existing function) right when they start.

Yes, I agree it is in theory dangerous to let any register value - and in particular for registers that are used by a function - be undefined. But as I guess this code type is for 'people that know what they are doing', so if someone knows that, for a particular function, r0-r2 contents are going to be replaced with new values, there are like no risk in letting them undefined. At least, that what I though when making my proposal...

@chishm (/Para?): Oh, a just a small question : why only use r0-r3, and not r0-r12, for the C1 code type ?
(and sorry if I sound stupid - as my programming knowledge isn't great, I might overlook a lot of things).


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 11:54 am 
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Title: All in a day's work.
That means those regs are used for local variables, and not input arguments.

The answer to your second question has deep roots in compiler theory for the ARM architecture. Regs r0-r3 are called "volatile" registers, and r4-r12 are the "non-volatile" registers. The volatile registers are used by the compiler without regard to what contents they may hold; they are always clobbered (used without making backups). Conversely, the non-volatile registers are backed up (stored on the stack) so that they will always retain their original value across function calls.

The non-volatile registers are the reason that function arguments 4+ are pushed to the stack instead of placed in the non-volatile registers: if that were the case, the compiler would have to backup the register contents first, by storing them on the stack. Using only the stack for arguments 4+ instead of the non-volatile registers skips a few steps. Compare:

How it is done without using non-volatile registers:
1) Store each argument onto the stack.
2) Pop each argument from the stack inside the function.

How it might be done with using non-volatile registers:
1) Backup register contents, pushing them to the stack.
2) Fill the non-volatile registers as needed.
3) If more than 13 arguments (r0-r12) push the remaining arguments to the stack.
4) If more than 13 arguments, pop each argument from the stack inside the function.
5) Pop the non-volatile registers from the stack after the function returns.


Isn't computer science fun?

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The question may come up of why I don't allow more arguments (and push them on the stack). The reason is for simplicity. It only takes 1 instruction to load args 1-4 and then 2 more to adjust the number of args actually used. Args greater than 4 would require looping through the arg list in reverse order, pushing the args 1 by 1.

I might do the if + offset codetype too. That means if codes will have no wasted bits. Hopefully the code handler doesn't grow too large.

EDIT: Kenobi, with code type C0000000 (loop start), if execution is set to off, how much is skipped? Is it just that line or is it the entire loop?


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 4:48 pm 
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I'm a bit confused, sorry, lol:

Does this allow you to run AR cheats on ROMs through a Flash Cart?

OR

Does it let you run AR cheats on an actual game cart through a Flash Cart without having to purchase an AR?

OR

Is it something completely different?lol


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 5:07 pm 
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If you read the whole thread you find your answer is #2. This is designed to run AR cheats on an original cart without the AR purchase. Additionally, I believe kickenchicken57 seems to be working on a solution using the ROMs.

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